Who were the "Good Guys" in Atlantis? - The Real Story?

[Ilkka]

Anyone else notice this little nugget Daniel slipped in?

Stargate gave the Goa'uld Baal a bad name, though according to my sister, was deserving of his demonic attribute because he was "way hotter" than anyone on the Stargate team

lol, Daniel, care to elaborate on this juicy-sounding story?

A fellow Stargate SG-1 fan(or something definetely not fanatic) I can see the Ba'al character's charismatic and the way Daniel's sister might have seen this Ba'al, its your typical manly man who is an asshole type and deserves a bad name and of course those Goa'ulds were the bad guys anyways, like Ra in the feature film, not to meantion whole lot of them Egyptian gods. Then they made Asgards the good guys who are aiding the Earth against a common enemy the "snake heads", as O'Neill used to call them.

[daniel]

Anyone else notice this little nugget Daniel slipped in?

Stargate gave the Goa'uld Baal a bad name, though according to my sister, was deserving of his demonic attribute because he was "way hotter" than anyone on the Stargate team

lol, Daniel, care to elaborate on this juicy-sounding story?

Just some more of her SciFi fantasies... I believe the logic goes: demons are from hell, hell is hot, so they have to pick the hottest actors to play demonic roles. Which is actually an interesting observation, as that does tend to be the case (male or female). I watch very little TV (she has it on 24/7), but after she mentioned it, I started noticing that in many shows. Saw Will & Grace the other night, and the evil, rich person, Karen, is the best looking person on that show.

Just another subliminal message saying that service-to-self types, evil = beautiful, powerful and sexy. Curious that in real life, it seems to be the other way around... how many women were swooning over George H. Bush?

[infinity]

Daniel, please help me to understand something here. If Ra was a good guy as your post is implying, and he was known as Baal in nearby regions, why were children sacrificed by fire to him?

You actually THERE, and saw that happen? Wow. Or did you just believe what you were told?

No, but neither were you. And its precisely that I don't just believe what I'm told that I asked these questions. Otherwise I'd just believe what you say wouldn't I?

I'm referring to references like this (and in non-religious sources there are also such references) - this is just a single example: “And they built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them, nor had it entered My heart that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin. (Jeremiah 32:35)". Pretty obvious child sacrificing going on here.

When I was in the Yucatan, I asked about those "human sacrifices" in the sinkhole at Chichén Itzá. Not what you'd think--they were volunteers, trying to bring a message to the god of the underworld. As a reward for that effort, they got a permanent seat in Heaven. It was an honor, not a "sacrifice," with a line of devotees waiting to do it. Common practice in the old days, so I'd suggest you examine these rituals to see what was actually going on, before jumping to conclusions.

Jumping to conclusions? I was just asking questions about references that was challenging what you were saying, I wasn't making any conclusions. I was pointing out other references and possibilities and asking conversation about them. While the above example is interesting, and maybe the same could be said about people burning their children to also have them "pass on" messages to their gods, I strongly doubt these were volunteers in reference to Baal. Also, muslims get told they get rewards in heaven for volunteering personal sacrifices too - in our terms acting like terrorists and killing people - in their terms doing sacred acts with divine rewards. How is this example of the sinkhole different to that? Sure I admit I have some homework to do in studying these rituals, but saying you asked about this from a culture that reveres their beliefs, wouldn't it imply that they will deify and respect those beliefs? Just like the muslims do to theirs? Just like the children being sacrificed to references of Baal probably also had 'righteous' reasons?

I don't see how the stuff you asked in Yucatan changes the picture. Could you please help me see why it does - or how to account for the point I'm making here? I'm not trying to be an antagonist I just don't understand why I should accept the explanation given above.

The Origins of Biblical Monotheism (Smith). In the old days, names were reused all the time. It is a constant source of frustration for genealogists, as well has historians. You also have to look at the structure of the native language being used. For example, Sumerian is cuneiform, Aztec is ideographic, etc., so when they are trying to identify someone, it is defined by that language form so you can end up with radically different names for the same reference.

For example, NIN-KHUR-SAG is the Greek Hera, the Roman Juno, The Norse Frigg, the Vedic Añjanā, the Mayan Ix Chel, the Aztec Tocî Yoalticitl, the Incan Pachamama, the Chinese Nu Kua, the Hebrew Mary, the Egyptian Isis, and the New Age "Gaia." What is in common... they are all expressions of "Mother Nature."

Thanks for pointing that out. I see how this would make things complicated. It also helps me understand why these links/associations between the different deities are very reasonable to make. I appreciate your effort in explaining this to me

Interestingly enough, I once had a strange experience of a vision of Isis doing a dance, as I would imagine egyptians would do poses like those illustrations in the hieroglyphs. I knew the dance movements represented language, but I had to go through the vision a few times before I got its meaning. It was very positive, and summarized it said that a lot of things I have inner conflict about will all line up if I put my focus on finding myself and just trusting that the turmoil will make sense later. I somehow knew this was Isis, not because of historical knowledge, but as a kind of intuition inexplicable "knowing". Bear in mind I grew up with a christian background so this wasn't just my imagination.
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If no compensation for these kind of changes are made, or method for validating their credibility, then why should we take these sources as viable facts?

You should NOT take them as viable "facts," but archetypal motifs, and then look for patterns.

Ok, but based on this response I struggle not to interpret it as something that no conclusions may be drawn from - thus only possibilities pointed out. Which means that no answers or explanations can be exacted, which means that its accuracy and value is just as much in question as what e.g. religious sources would say. They're also full of archetypal motifs and patterns to be identified, also not to be taken as viable facts. So its all subject to interpretation then.

So who knows for sure then if the similarities between deities of various cultures are the same persons or just beings of the same race all doing their own thing (but looking all alike to the humans) - and the humans interpret them as the same guys but they may be very different persons. E.g. One time Enlil may be saying something to the same people that Enki also spoke to, and the people think its the same guy. Am I incorrect in saying this is a very reasonable possibility? If I look at a religious text like the bible i can see many times that jehovah does benevolent, wonderful things and many times the same jehovah is attributed pretty scary, nasty, angry things.

Devout Christian, are thee? I'm not criticizing anyone or any religion, nor "condemning" anything, nor even looking for fault or flaw. Just simply pointing out where the mythological trail leads, from the Annunaki base camp.

I think if one read all the posts I made on this website's forum, anyone would know this isn't how a "devout christian" talks. Devout christians don't ask questions, nor contribute to alternative understanding of reality - they just shove their own beliefs down other people's throats. You see me doing that?

My intention wasn't to say that you personally condemn a belief system, but saying that generally, this is a bias that all humans have - and biasses in our thinking will subconsciously influence anything we do, decide, and how we think and interpret things. I didn't see any objective interpretation expressed in your posts; I saw straightforward conclusions.

Those conclusions involved an implicit discernment between certain religious characters as bad guys and others as good guys. I was trying to point out, that to me, it seems like some bias is involved here - where's the other side of the coin? Without the other side of the coin, why should anyone interpret it as unbiased, despite how much confidence can be put in your hard work (no sarcasm) and research? I'm not saying it IS biased - but if I consider the possibility of it being biased based on how you interpret it, it would be reasonably justified for me to say it is biased. I'm asking you to show me why its not biased. I'm asking for explanation, for understanding. I'm not name-calling.

Enlil flooded the Earth in an attempt to KILL all of mankind. And almost succeeded. Sound familiar? And BTW, it was the same "snake in the garden" that told Noah to build an Ark to escape the flood--Enki--because he knew what his brother was up to, and was not going to let him get away with it.
And it's not like that there is any kind of "Agenda 21" to depopulate humanity going on right now, is there?

Some questions, if you could find the time to help me understand Excuse the rapid succession of them, I'm typing as I'm thinking;
Why would Enlil want to kill all of mankind? If he needed An's approval to engineer slaves, wouldn't he need An's approval to flood the earth? Doesn't sound like something An would approve of according to how you talk about An. If we were engineered slaves, killing us all doesn't make sense either. Also, the earth wasn't really "his" and u did point to him contesting with others of his kind for domination - why wouldn't the others rather stop him causing such catastrophe? They certainly had reason and means to. Why conserve just a handful? And are you really pointing to a story here that talks about a guy building a huge wooden boat with precise measurements and instructions (i.e. doesn't seem like just an analogy here)? What makes you say it was a snake or snake-like being that told him to do this?

Why pick 'normal' humans to be a slave race / nation (referring to hebrews) if he could just genetically engineer some giant bad-ass dudes, give them some tech that he has a killswitch for, and cause all the trouble he wants to? Why do it the way he has?

Enlil could not just "genetically engineer some giant bad-ass dudes," unless you count sex, which Enlil was fond of, and DID produce a race of giant bad-ass dudes called the Nefilim... for actual engineering, he would have to get An's approval, first.... [etc]

Enlil has done it "the way he has" because the other gods don't agree, and keep throwing a monkey wrench in his plans. Kind of like the way real patriots keep throwing a wrench in the New World Order.

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I would be very interested in hearing more about this last part, this disagreement stuff. I'm not talking about the general "don't get along well" things, but I mean, in ancient asian legends there's stories (and supporting evidence found like rock/ground showing signs of nuclear weapons over 10'000 years old in those areas) of very big fights between disagreeing gods. Think the lord vishnu was involved in one of those big fights and after that he dissappeared never to be seen again. Got any interesting info on how these various asian legends might correlate with what you're talking about?

Thanks for all your time and effort daniel, I sincerely appreciate the conversation. Please don't interpret any of it as "i'm taking you on personally". I really am only trying to understand. I sincerely ask forgiveness where I came over as offensive. I respect you, and because I do, I come to you with questions, I don't go to other places and try to make you look bad.

[Ilkka]

Hi Infinity

I think that if you take any one of these stories about ancient times and all, they might be all bullshit that you and I are let to believe in its only the translation and interpretation that makes the understanding of things, maybe they give you a nice picture or two which are also transcribed to be something that might be true, you really need to think all of the things you know now and question them like you question this new information which may not have any fancy pictures to show unless someone wants to make them pictures.

I think differently than I did before like in 4 years ago and still growing to think more differently than I did yesterday, this is ongoing evolution of mind and the body follows, not too far behind though also ego must follow, since its attached to this body.

My suggestion is to think analytically of everything and think of the previously unthinkable things of the specific subjects you want to, somethings will make you angry but think of why this makes me feel what I feel now and why I should even feel this way.

[infinity]

Ilkka, not sure what anger has to do with this. If a kid asks me a question out of curiosity he isn't angry when I tell him an answer he didn't expect or like or agree with. He just challenges my answer. If I tell him "because I say so" he'll just make up his own mind and not care what I think, since obviously I wont explain myself. The end result is that the kid will be indifferent. Not angry. I want to avoid indifference, I want to push for an answer, for understanding. From someone I respect, like daniel.

If you read my whole post you would see that I'm already doing exactly what you suggest. Perhaps to an extreme skeptical level. But that should be acceptable on a forum of a community of implicit skeptics.

Nonetheless, I believe daniel's perspective is very valuable, regardless of whether I like it or not. If I didn't believe it to be valuable, I wouldn't ask for more of it.

[Lotus]

Thank you infinity. You raise points that I believe to be worth considering. As an aside, I am curious, what is your operational definition of skepticism?

[Ilkka]

Ilkka, not sure what anger has to do with this. If a kid asks me a question out of curiosity he isn't angry when I tell him an answer he didn't expect or like or agree with. He just challenges my answer. If I tell him "because I say so" he'll just make up his own mind and not care what I think, since obviously I wont explain myself. The end result is that the kid will be indifferent. Not angry. I want to avoid indifference, I want to push for an answer, for understanding. From someone I respect, like daniel.

If you read my whole post you would see that I'm already doing exactly what you suggest. Perhaps to an extreme skeptical level. But that should be acceptable on a forum of a community of implicit skeptics.

Nonetheless, I believe daniel's perspective is very valuable, regardless of whether I like it or not. If I didn't believe it to be valuable, I wouldn't ask for more of it.

True, however feelings have everything to do how we function unless you choose not to feel those pleasant or unpleasant sensations, Im trying to point out that our feelings drive us to some extent, which is avoidable to avoid unpleasant situations.

Whatever the situation may be we all know this one thing for true none of us havent been back in time to see those atrocities actually happen so we can only speculate on translations from some ancient texts and possibly some pictures or scriptures and paintings. Those who made these texts and stuff have also been human(correct me if im wrong ) and for us humans well all think quite differently maybe some think quite similarly, but overall think differently indivitually.I do know that the negatively oriented wishes us to think in the box and not outside of it so thinking process would be alike among the brainwashed people. I coud be wrong in some things, but this is the way I think of humans thinking abilities. Cant still explain my point in all of this since all I can give are some hints every now and then. Maybe I cant give an straight answer because it lacks the pleasure of learning and insight of things and stuff.

[neal]

That is not entirely accurate. A very few are from there, and here, but that cannot be broadcast, that is not a back and forth, that is this damn War, and there are no good guys, just those who survive through control, or chaos, and the third option, which is to watch, and stay out of history, until commanded by the true One, not that machinery.

Maybe consider breakaway tribes, they are human, just not how most remember, actively. If you jump like that, books are not what works to transmit, they are just looking for navigators, and ticket agents, machines will hunt down any ghost to agree with the archonic dirty work.

It is just that Atlantis, and this place, are entwined, and becoming the same thing, that is the War, and the promise.

I do not know why there was one lost through this, that is probably just the math. Trust no works of man, there is that bias to buying in, that is why most of the rest are just aquatic werewolves, that is the invitation, makes sense, at the times.

[daniel]

No, but neither were you. And its precisely that I don't just believe what I'm told that I asked these questions. Otherwise I'd just believe what you say wouldn't I?

Well... I wasn't there personally, but did get to see a lot of "history" from the videotapes they made using the Montauk equipment to view and record the past. After all, I did write the computer programs to do just that. And after you've seen it... it becomes rather obvious that our history is 95% fantasy--nothing more than political propaganda to get people to believe certain things by programming them in at an early age. Public history is nothing more than "psy-ops for sheeple." Mythology is actually more accurate, once you get over the translation problems.

Sorry, but I was not able to follow most of what you wrote after this, as I'm not a blogger and have a difficult time with these "stream of consciousness" presentations ("writing as you think" versus technical writing). If you could summarize, and perhaps not use as many negatives, I can take a stab at answering. But from what I could get, I would recommend you read two books:

The Epic of Gilgamesh (extraordinary detail about Noah, the Ark and what happened)
The Book of Jubilees (the book Moses wrote up on Mount Sinai)

[Kano]

Anyone else notice this little nugget Daniel slipped in?

Stargate gave the Goa'uld Baal a bad name, though according to my sister, was deserving of his demonic attribute because he was "way hotter" than anyone on the Stargate team

lol, Daniel, care to elaborate on this juicy-sounding story?

He's referring to the TV series Stargate SG-1 I do believe.