Violations of will (like physical force) in other densities?

[Lostseeker]

Daniel, thank you as always for the insights. My question here is, at what point (or dimension, or density) does the imposition of one's will against another's, manifesting in 3D as simple physical material "force" for example, cease to happen?

I guess it is a bit difficult for me to verbalize this question but basically, I always had this image in mind that our "true" selves in their true forms/elements (spirits or whatever), could not be forced or overridden without their will or consent. For example, things like physical violence, rape, and other such physical 3D manifestations of violations of will, would be unfathomable in higher/truer forms of existence...one could not "touch" or interact with another unless that other mutually wanted to. However, your descriptions of 4D seem to hint that this is not the case (although perhaps somewhat removed from what we experience in 3D?). So...how does this aspect of "normal" 3D existence manifest itself in other densities? Do concepts like force or coercion manifest in 4D or above? When/where are we "free" of this aspect of 3D existence?

[daniel]

Daniel, thank you as always for the insights. My question here is, at what point (or dimension, or density) does the imposition of one's will against another's, manifesting in 3D as simple physical material "force" for example, cease to happen?

6th Density, which is called the "density of unity" because you have an equal standing in 3D space and 3D time. 3D/3D = 1 (unity).

I guess it is a bit difficult for me to verbalize this question but basically, I always had this image in mind that our "true" selves in their true forms/elements (spirits or whatever), could not be forced or overridden without their will or consent. For example, things like physical violence, rape, and other such physical 3D manifestations of violations of will, would be unfathomable in higher/truer forms of existence...one could not "touch" or interact with another unless that other mutually wanted to. However, your descriptions of 4D seem to hint that this is not the case (although perhaps somewhat removed from what we experience in 3D?). So...how does this aspect of "normal" 3D existence manifest itself in other densities? Do concepts like force or coercion manifest in 4D or above? When/where are we "free" of this aspect of 3D existence?

When you look at life, look at a series of incarnations spread out over, oh, about 1250 years or so, all attached to the same mind/soul, trying to fulfill a purpose to advance your consciousness and build your spirit complex. That also means that karma plays a BIG role in what happens to people. If someone attacks you, it may well be that you were the attacker in a previous incarnation, and YOU decided to have this compensation to balance it out. Then the choice becomes yours--you can "get revenge", in typical rivalry mode, or use rapport and forgive the transgression as a part of your spiritual growth.

The key to spiritual advancement is learning to work in harmony, not competition. So when bad things happen to good people, consider what you learn from the incident. And I can tell you from personal experience, it is NOT an easy thing to do at times. I've battled with injustices for years... but as the old, Chinese priests knew... you have truly advanced, when your anger has turned to joy.

[Lostseeker]

6th Density, which is called the "density of unity" because you have an equal standing in 3D space and 3D time. 3D/3D = 1 (unity).

Daniel, thank you. I must admit, that is a bit dismaying. So basically, everything "prior", say 4th and 5th densities, will still have this element of coercion and violation of will? When we "die", whether in 3D or 4D, I guess we do not end in 6D or such? Even in death I guess, we are not beyond such violations?

When you look at life, look at a series of incarnations spread out over, oh, about 1250 years or so, all attached to the same mind/soul, trying to fulfill a purpose to advance your consciousness and build your spirit complex. That also means that karma plays a BIG role in what happens to people. If someone attacks you, it may well be that you were the attacker in a previous incarnation, and YOU decided to have this compensation to balance it out. Then the choice becomes yours--you can "get revenge", in typical rivalry mode, or use rapport and forgive the transgression as a part of your spiritual growth.

The key to spiritual advancement is learning to work in harmony, not competition. So when bad things happen to good people, consider what you learn from the incident. And I can tell you from personal experience, it is NOT an easy thing to do at times. I've battled with injustices for years... but as the old, Chinese priests knew... you have truly advanced, when your anger has turned to joy.

As for the learning and karma thing, this is where I unfortunately find myself diverging from this prevailing view of karma/instruction/etc. For better or worse, ignorant or not, I feel entirely at odds with this existence, and do not buy into the idea that I "chose" to come here, or that it is ultimately all for my spiritual benefit. Oh, certainly one could admit that one can "learn" from adversity, but nonetheless. There is undoubtedly an analog to human/3D suffering on our "true" spiritual selves, and I cannot see that that pain, regardless of how it is packaged or spun, is a "good" or beneficial thing. The Veil of Forgetting is another vile part of the Great Lie as far as I am concerned. In my view, such a thing would seem to be probably one of the greatest cosmic "crimes" there must be...to literally take away everything someone/thing is, which is their sense of self, their memories, their experiences, etc. (And at that level, that is ALL one is, no?) It is spun here to be part of the so-called "learning" experience of this existence, but the very concept is so illogical and repugnant to me. Surely one does not "learn" without full knowledge of their full self and experiences. To learn Calculus, one does not need to have one's prior learning of basic math and geometry and whatever other prerequisites "erased" from one's memories. And even if they were, then "learning" Calculus would become pointless and impossible. It also, not trivially, seems to make the entire so-called inviolable concept of "free will", moot. A tangent argument I've also heard is that we were/are ultimately perfect, with perfect knowledge, and so once one "knows" something (or everything, rather), erasing it artificially is the only way to "re-learn" it. Again, not to belabor but I find the argument ridiculous and stomach-turning.

"Karma" also does not seem nearly the even-handed judge that it is portrayed to be. There are horrors being wreaked (and have been, seemingly, across known history) on this planet that seem to cross lines that should never be cross-able, with humans (or masquerading as them?) playing with things that they clearly do not understand, and likely never fully can, let alone touch..."God's" toolbox, so to speak. Nuclear weaponry is one, but since then, now we also have experiments with physically intrusive (and not) mind control, manipulation of weather and nature, and other such violations of what seemingly any sane sentient creature would understand to be against fundamental natural and universal order. Many of these and other spirit-numbing horrors we are witnessing as a "normal" part of this very abnormal reality right now would seem to go off the karmic scale. Yet, they continue. Not only allowed to happen in the first place, but continue, and expand.

Anyway. Forgive the rant and thank you again. By your Chinese priests, I guess I may have long to go, since for me anger defines this existence far more than joy does. But then again, truth be told, I do not feel that I am a willing student in this twisted so-called "school".

[daniel]

Daniel, thank you. I must admit, that is a bit dismaying. So basically, everything "prior", say 4th and 5th densities, will still have this element of coercion and violation of will? When we "die", whether in 3D or 4D, I guess we do not end in 6D or such? Even in death I guess, we are not beyond such violations?

Even in the Ra Material (Law of One), it is mentioned that there are still wars in 4th density. 5th density is an improvement, being the density of Honor, but it does not really come together into one view until 6D. Death isn't an end, it is just a transition. Of course there are always those dead folks that insist that there is no such thing as "life before death."

For the most part, death is still 3D, except your consciousness is in 3D time, trying to access 3D space. So I just try to make the best of what I have to work with. But if I do find a way out, I'll be sure to let you know!

As for the learning and karma thing, this is where I unfortunately find myself diverging from this prevailing view of karma/instruction/etc. For better or worse, ignorant or not, I feel entirely at odds with this existence, and do not buy into the idea that I "chose" to come here, or that it is ultimately all for my spiritual benefit. Oh, certainly one could admit that one can "learn" from adversity, but nonetheless. There is undoubtedly an analog to human/3D suffering on our "true" spiritual selves, and I cannot see that that pain, regardless of how it is packaged or spun, is a "good" or beneficial thing. The Veil of Forgetting is another vile part of the Great Lie as far as I am concerned. In my view, such a thing would seem to be probably one of the greatest cosmic "crimes" there must be...to literally take away everything someone/thing is, which is their sense of self, their memories, their experiences, etc. (And at that level, that is ALL one is, no?) It is spun here to be part of the so-called "learning" experience of this existence, but the very concept is so illogical and repugnant to me. Surely one does not "learn" without full knowledge of their full self and experiences. To learn Calculus, one does not need to have one's prior learning of basic math and geometry and whatever other prerequisites "erased" from one's memories. And even if they were, then "learning" Calculus would become pointless and impossible. It also, not trivially, seems to make the entire so-called inviolable concept of "free will", moot. A tangent argument I've also heard is that we were/are ultimately perfect, with perfect knowledge, and so once one "knows" something (or everything, rather), erasing it artificially is the only way to "re-learn" it. Again, not to belabor but I find the argument ridiculous and stomach-turning.

"Karma" also does not seem nearly the even-handed judge that it is portrayed to be. There are horrors being wreaked (and have been, seemingly, across known history) on this planet that seem to cross lines that should never be cross-able, with humans (or masquerading as them?) playing with things that they clearly do not understand, and likely never fully can, let alone touch..."God's" toolbox, so to speak. Nuclear weaponry is one, but since then, now we also have experiments with physically intrusive (and not) mind control, manipulation of weather and nature, and other such violations of what seemingly any sane sentient creature would understand to be against fundamental natural and universal order. Many of these and other spirit-numbing horrors we are witnessing as a "normal" part of this very abnormal reality right now would seem to go off the karmic scale. Yet, they continue. Not only allowed to happen in the first place, but continue, and expand.

I can certainly understand your frustration... try telling every scientist you meet that "everything they know is wrong!"

And speaking of which, Calculus isn't a good example because it is based on a false premise... nothing in Calculus actually works in Nature. See Miles Mathis' paper, A Redefinition of the Derivative. Point being: try looking for answers that are outside of what you already know is wrong.

Regarding the Veil of Forgetting... veils are easily ripped off, if you really want to look to see what is on the other side. But just remember that it is not often what you expect it to be.

And you are right about karma, it is a very biased judge and jury, because you not only have to deal with personal karma, but also the effects of the karma for the collectives of which you partake. And that can include your ancestors, your race, your culture, your society and even your species. Most of the time it makes little sense, as bad things happen to good people all the time. And there is also the clock time delay, as the effects of karma are not usually "broadcast" until you either die, or reincarnate. But in the long run, it does balance out as everything in nature seeks balance--even atoms forming molecules. We just refer to that "karma" as valences.

Anyway. Forgive the rant and thank you again. By your Chinese priests, I guess I may have long to go, since for me anger defines this existence far more than joy does. But then again, truth be told, I do not feel that I am a willing student in this twisted so-called "school".

Those priests also say, "Every journey starts with a single step." So rather than focus on how long the trip is, remember that you are now closer to the end of the road. I don't consider Earth a "school," nor a "prison." To me, it is just another life form trying to figure out the Universe, and we happen to be sharing part of that great journey together.

One of the most important things to remember is that your bioenergy is intellegent. If you tell it to cause you all sorts of grief and make your life miserable, it does what it is told. You ARE the boss. I know it may sound a bit corny, but you need to start looking at the good things in life, more than staring down the well of despair. If you can just find that lifeline, you will be surprised how things can change.

[Lostseeker]

And speaking of which, Calculus isn't a good example because it is based on a false premise... nothing in Calculus actually works in Nature. See Miles Mathis' paper, A Redefinition of the Derivative. Point being: try looking for answers that are outside of what you already know is wrong.

Yes, perhaps not the best example...admittedly off the top of my head. Or...come to think of it, in fact perhaps ideal after all, since I consider both it and the prevalent concept of this reality as an ultimately-benign training ground to both be frauds.

Regarding the Veil of Forgetting... veils are easily ripped off, if you really want to look to see what is on the other side. But just remember that it is not often what you expect it to be.

Certainly that is the impression that the very term seems meant to invoke. "Veil"...just fragile and delicate, just floating there, masking things for the wearer's benefit. So easy to simply slip off, if only one truly desires to. When in fact it seems more like invasive spiritual lobotomy or a mental iron maiden, and made all but impossible to overcome. (And to hear it from many circles, if one somehow DOES overcome it, of course it is horrifically punishable, by eternal torment or oblivion or whatever other similar sickening threat concept.)

In any case, I would not be exaggerating if I said that "ripping it off" is paramount to me. In fact, right now I cannot think of anything else more important, if the possibility really existed. I've been seeking that for many years. Short of claimed ways like death (I assume?), or certain drugs, or inexplicable "gifts"/luck with individuals getting glimpses beyond, there has seemed to be no way. If somehow you can help with this, or even point me/us in the right direction, I would be grateful to you beyond words. I'm fine with taking my chances with being disappointed or whatever. No potential disappointment in any truth behind the veil can match the disappointment in this world of lies to date anyway.

One of the most important things to remember is that your bioenergy is intellegent. If you tell it to cause you all sorts of grief and make your life miserable, it does what it is told. You ARE the boss. I know it may sound a bit corny, but you need to start looking at the good things in life, more than staring down the well of despair. If you can just find that lifeline, you will be surprised how things can change.

I guess you are referring to positive thinking / Law of Attraction or such. Well, forgive me but that too, I can't help but feel seems just another part of the Great Lie. If our bioenergy is intelligent, then we should be able to reasonably expect that it be smart enough to understand for example that outrage and despair over the constant horrific aspects and happenings of this diseased reality does not mean we want more of the same? It's akin to a parent who, claiming "intelligence" and wanting the best for a child, with their child crying and screaming over a broken arm, deciding that well, since the child is so focused on that injury, that it must want more of the same, and so instead of helping heal the injury, goes ahead and breaks the other arm. Well either that, or as "punishment" for the child being solely focused on the "negative" of the injury - I've heard both aspects of argument, and as you can expect both seem repugnant to me.

There's something to be said for trying hard to keep oneself positive and motivated rather than mired in past despair or misfortune, sure, but a lot, if not most, of the despair and misery in this world seem clearly despite our efforts and intentions and attitudes, not because of them. If my spiritual state and psyche are in bad shape, it is because of the world and life presented to me, not the other way around. It seems to be what we all know instinctively and logically, but as this is a reality of Lies, it just gets spun opposite and given a benign spin ("positive thinking", "affirmations", etc...such lovely uplifting vocabulary), so that in effect the world's horrors and our own unhappiness are due to our reaction to them, and thus our own fault. I remember a scene in that movie They Live which you mentioned recently, where a politician (one of "Them") is giving a speech along these lines, how everyone just needs to be positive, have faith, "we don't need pessimism", etc. Part of the control matrix.

Ah well...I hate having to argue the dark side, but I call them like I see them. Most of this reality isn't very comprehensible to me I guess.