conventional scientific constants are always changing

[infinity]

infinity, how did you become aware of those inclinations in yourself?

It was a very hard journey. I used to be a very fundamentalist christian. Not the type that was all about rules, although I had a lot of dogma and wrong thinking - but one with experience in the reality of the 1 Cor 12 'gifts of the spirit' as the fancy spiritual-sounding term is used in churches. I was in a great place (or so I thought) in my spiritual journey. Had a place where I could serve and encourage others with these 'gifts' (they're just psychic gifts you use but you apply "church-approved" ethics and protocol to them), had great relations with others in ministries and churches. Some very big-hearted people, some very patient and loving and kind. Angels on earth. Much better people than I ever was.

But I grew discontent...

So I prayed a prayer. Although in my own subjective experience I was feeling very close and intimate in a relationship with God, I was extremely frustrated because I felt as if there's always something "between" us like I couldn't get closer and I passionately and desperately wanted to get closer. What I had wasn't enough. My spirit was crying out in desperation. I would pay any price. I would do anything. I just HAD TO get closer!

So I prayed dangerous prayer: "God, I want to be one with You."

And I meant it. I meant it even if it sounded nonsensical in my christian mind. I meant it even if it implied blasphemy according to many christians' theology. I meant it because my heart wanted it. My spirit wanted it.

The response was a big surprise to me: "It will cost you everything. Your job, your friends, your ministry, even your relationship with Me.". I was like wtf? How can it cost my relationship with God? Isn't that the thing I'm praying for more of? Didn't make sense to me at the time. But I said yes. Anything. No matter what. I will be a hobo on the street if I can have what I really wanted. Nothing else mattered.

And so, a few days later, I heard about this week-long 'workshop' at a place called "The Centre of Light". Oooh, sounds very new-agey - I thought. I was very judgemental about the sound of it. But something drew me to it. The workshop was called "Turning Point". Against my 'better judgement' I went for it with a good friend of mine. Despite my judgementalism, I experienced an open heaven on the premises while signing up for the workshop there. Felt like in the spirit everything was white. It was almost like I was looking at the people that volunteered there with 2 sets of eyes. One saw long white silvery gowns, and the other normal modern clothing they physically had on them. I was confused by this perception - weren't these new-agey people that deceive others into going away from God? This would be interesting, I thought.

In it, through self-discovery I realized that my view of reality was really not making any sense (no one in the workshop 'told' us to believe in any way or think in any particular way. All they did was ask us questions. No matter the answers, the questions would be followed by more questions. They wouldn't react or respond in any negative way on any answer. There would just be more questions. So you end up questioning everything.). I realized by shock that in a sense every person is "God" and so am I in a sense - and to a fundamentalist christian mind that is paradigm-breaking stuff. But I knew it was true. I could feel it inside me. I could feel "God" looking at me (from the perspective I'm used to in my christian background) like a friend and with his silent but loving look affirm the understanding that I was developing. I was astounded. I thought it blasphemy, unreal, yet, I knew that I knew that I knew that it is true. I couldn't explain it through theology or anything. It was just like jumping over a cliff. There's a gap, but I was on the other side now.

On my way driving home, I remember Jesus saying to me "Do you still love me now that you know who I truly am?". You see, the paradigm shift for me was so big, I felt betrayed. Betrayed by my friends and spiritual leaders in the church. I felt betrayed by even God, that He wouldn't show me this stuff from the start. I felt like I lost everything. I lost trust. Trust in my beliefs, but also trust in my ability to tell 'right' from 'wrong' and know what is truth and what not.

I felt like I lost my relationship with God even.

And that, is where the long and amazing journey began to where I am today. And I can never look back.

Still processing some of that disillusionment here. But, mostly, I am more excited than ever about the future, I'm excited about being alive, about the potential of the human race. Excited about a new-found understanding of the divine and how we're all connected. I'm excited that its ok to develop telekinetic abilities and not be thought of as demon-possessed. Or do ESP games for fun and experiment with telepathy. Or to influence random chance events by the power of my mind (like company end year function lotteries. Harmless enough? Or is that cheating badly? ) and not feel condemned as if I'm doing dark occult rituals.

One of my most precious and most treasured experiences since the start of this journey is meeting the spirit of the planet earth. I haven't met a mothering and nurturing spirit such as Her! Breathtaking, the endless love that she has. I was actually inspired to do so after hearing a few christian teachings from Ian Clayton (from New Zealand) who has done over 20+ years of personal work to get to a point where he can "jaunt" and teach others how to do it, and not just on this plane, but to others. I haven't done this training but this guy has shared some pretty theology-breaking stuff in some pretty fundamentalist christian conventions. Some christian beliefs he challenged was that the planet is alive and has a spirit. He also challenged people on "why would satan want to go for and occupy 'hell'? what's so important or strategic about that place? Why would Jesus say that the gates of hell will not stand against his church (ecclesia, which means governing body, not religious group) as if an invasion is planned to take over hell for good? What's going on here for real?" He would also warn ppl not to 'go there' (for those that had the ability to OBE or jaunt) unless they're properly prepared since one could be burned to a cinders there. Must be some pretty potent energies there.

I digress... but how can I not? This universe is too damn amazing.

[Lotus]

Wow infinity. Thank you for sharing. That was more than I was expecting and sharing it in an open forum is very brave. I feel I should reciprocate somehow but I don't have anything so impressive or insightful to share.

[Ilkka]

Why would Jesus say that the gates of hell will not stand against his church (ecclesia, which means governing body, not religious group) as if an invasion is planned to take over hell for good? What's going on here for real?" He would also warn ppl not to 'go there' (for those that had the ability to OBE or jaunt) unless they're properly prepared since one could be burned to a cinders there. Must be some pretty potent energies there.

This reminds me of Agartha that is in the earths core and on the cosmic sector so if you venture into the earths core in material sector you would definitely burn to cinder and most likely die instantly, because of the intense radiation on this side, however on the other side of the "coin" there everything is different I think though that one needs to be dead still if one wants to go there.

I however dont have any strong religious past, but some of my family members do have strong feelings to christianity.

[Gopi]

Very interesting discussion... I had some catching up to do.

The contrast between absolute measures and relative measures has to be investigated, so I'm going to try it out here. Take for example the Meter stick at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures, and look at it closely...

When you take a hard look at "absolute," you find it is nothing more than a choice of "datum;" a reference from which your consciousness uses to gauge or measure "stuff" (physical, metaphysical, ethical). The only reason that the speed of light is "absolute" in science, is because the scientists fixed its value.

If left to itself, it changes... either due to erosion, or the local temperature, or so on. Hence there is nothing absolute about it, but if you try to characterize its change based on erosion (say by putting the time value) or temperature (which is another length, that of the thermometer), it does not solve anything, as those values in turn are once more subject to change in the exact same way. For example, one second is the time it takes for light to go a certain distance, etc. So finding absolute measures of length is impossible. And so is finding absolute measure of time, as no clock can be said to be regular.

Here is where the whole story changes, and the question becomes, can we assign a number to a physical quantity? Since it turns out, we cannot "define" space or time, it is only the interrelationship of space and time that can have a number associated with it... 1/1. Hence, all numbers are derived from ratios, and not the other way around as taught... the fact that we write 1 meter/1 sec is due to the history of the past couple of centuries that believed that space and time are absolute in themselves. Rather, ratio has to occur prior to number. Einstein went the other way... instead of altering the sequence from number->ratio to ratio->number, he removed whatever qualities numbers themselves had! Hence we have the ideas that space and time are relative, and hence relativity. Instead of seeking for absoluteness in a different sense than the conventional assumption, he threw it out, and generations of physicists have been trained not to look too closely at it.

So if we change from measuring something as a ratio of numbers, to getting numbers as special cases of ratios, we hit upon something that has its very basis in not being "static" but rather "alive"... hence speed of light is the expression of a life activity. Light is alive, or in eastern terms, has prana. Whenever we measure light, we actually kill it, and only a static number remains (e.g. speed of light, frequency). This life activity is tough to digest for conventional science, which has been looking for it in proteins and DNA and whatnot. I think this realization was just too much for physicists at the turn of the 20th century, so they avoided it and went with Feynman's favorite saying: Shut up and calculate!

[Gopi]

First off... thanks for sharing the full story. It was unexpected, and much appreciated.

One of my most precious and most treasured experiences since the start of this journey is meeting the spirit of the planet earth. I haven't met a mothering and nurturing spirit such as Her! Breathtaking, the endless love that she has.

Glad to hear that. Something I found out recently is that even people who we normally would not expect to have spiritual experiences do have them, even in the mainstream... look up how Michael Jackson got the tune for the Earth Song, in 1995. It is truly fascinating.

[Ilkka]

The contrast between absolute measures and relative measures has to be investigated, so I'm going to try it out here. Take for example the Meter stick at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures, and look at it closely...

This is the thing that had me pondered of the microcosm, because I've studied chemistry to be laboratory assistant (not lab analyst but almost, it requires more school in this country). So I know a little about the little things, and I deducted many years ago that everything wears on atomic level, the bonds cant hold forever, even in the "right circumstances". Even bridges wear off in time. This "new" cosmic and material sector things just proves my earlier deductions, that no one would consider even, since the most still cling on the "good old ways".

[Gadhai]

I hope this better explains what I meant,

Spiritual Evolution
Question: I want to know more about the position of women in your
tradition. Are women allowed to participate in the process of
practicing, praying and showing their devotion?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Who is a woman here may not be a woman
there in that higher realm; who is a man here may not be a man there.
The body is only a dress. The soul has its mental dress, and according
to that, we wear this physical dress, the flesh dress. Sexual identity
means the flesh and the mind. In the soul, who will represent which
type of sexual identity there, is uncertain at present here in this plane.
But women there in the higher realm have a higher prospect, a
brighter prospect in the spiritual world.
In the spiritual realm, those souls that are female - who have attained
that formation of the soul's realization - hold a better and higher
position than men. Here in the plane of exploitation, men hold the
better position. But there, in the plane of submission and surrender,
the female form of mind is more rewarding than the male's form of
mind. The negative aspect of submission is more valuable in
connection with Krsna. The supreme positive is Krsna himself. And
his potency is of a negative nature. We belong to the negative-potency
group, not the master group. The Lord himself is the possessor of the
potency.
Question: You refer to Krsna as him. Does that mean that Krsna is
manifested as a male figure?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, male. That is, he is the predominating
moiety. Predominating half of the Absolute. And others are to be
predominated by him. There are two halves of the Absolute Truth: the
male half, or predominating moiety, and the female half, or
predominated moiety. Positive and negative. It is similar to the
concept of the proton and electron, the positive and the negative. The
proton is in the center and the electron and innumerable other
subatomic particles are like so many planets moving about the center.
Question: Do you believe in the general concept of equality?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: No two things are ever equal - in this world
or in the spiritual world. No two things can ever be the same or equal.
Everything has its specific characteristic. One atom is different from
another atom, one electron is different from another electron. It cannot
but be. Everything has its particular differentiated character.
Question: How can you determine whether one thing is superior to
another?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: We must judge a thing from the universal
standpoint. If we are to judge a thing, we must judge its quality on the
basis of its connection with the center. That measurement may be
made according to the standard of ecstasy, rasam, just as gold is the
standard for measuring the value of different monetary papers. There
may be many currencies - the pound, the ruble, the dollar, the rupee,
the yen - but the common standard for determining their value is gold.
In the same way, there may be different types of calculation of one's
relationship with the Absolute on the basis of rasa, ecstasy or divine
mellow. Rasa is also scientifically divided. Rasa is classified in five
groups: santa, passive, dasya, servitude, sakhya, friendship, vatsalya,
parenthood, and madhura, consorthood. And then again these groups
are classified according to the degree or intensity of rasa in each
group. Ultimately rasam, anandam, happiness - is the common
standard by which to judge which religion is higher or lower.
If we want to establish the value of a thing, we must do so by seeing
how much of the common requirement it provides. For example, food
is a common requirement. We cannot eat dollars in a time of famine.
But one who is in possession of food is in a good position. We cannot
avoid food. We may not always require dollars, but we must have
food. A nation cannot stand without food. That is an indispensable
necessity for everyone. In the same way, joy is the innate requirement
of every soul, every living thing. And so the position of a particular
religious conception may be judged according to the development of
rasa that may be traced there.
There are different proposals in the religious conceptions of different
peoples. There are Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, and Jews. Among
those who follow the Vedic doctrines, there are Vaisnavas, Sankarites,
and so many others. But if we are to judge the value of different
religious conceptions in a comparative study, we must judge their
value by three things: sat, cit, and anandam. This means we must
judge how far a religion is durable, eternal; what is the quality of what
is conceived; how far can we conceive of it within the plane of
knowledge; and what is its development of rasa, anandam. These three
things must be there: existence, consciousness, and the food of
consciousness - ecstasy, happiness. We are to compare religion on the
basis of these three things.
In this way we may ask, "What is the proposal of Islam, Christianity,
Judaism, or Buddhism regarding existence, knowledge, and ecstasy,
which is the goal of all religion." Christianity, Islam, Vaisnavism - so
many religious faiths exist. We are to compare them and then accept
what is best. Different adjustments are made by each faith. The
different religions of the world are not to be cast away, but there are
those for whom each will be - for the present - useful and relevant.
But according to our understanding, Krsna is the personification of
ecstasy and beauty. And so the highest religious process for achieving
complete ecstasy will be the search for Sri Krsna, Reality the
Beautiful. But how should we search? Through devotion. And what is
that? Dedication. What is dedication? Surrender, self-sacrifice - die to
live. And what is living? To live in love, krsna-prema, love divine.
The whole picture can be described in two words, krsna-prema. The
search for Sri Krsna is sambandha jnana or understanding our
relationship with the object of our fulfillment. Then what is that
search, and what is the end of the search? In a few words, in a
nutshell, we have described all these things on the title page of our
book, The Search for Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful.
And this may be understood through the help of Sri Guru and his
grace: it may be explained that the necessity of guru is there, it is
universal. To err is human, but not to err is also an inner tendency. Sri
Gurudeva comes to give us relief from our internal trouble. In this
way the conception of guru may be developed. The necessity for guru
can be inferred from the universal basis of nature which is present
around us.
And from there it will gradually move to the absolute. Ultimately the
conception of guru will come to Krsna. In this highest sense, Krsna is
guru. Who can remove all our doubts, and satisfy all our inquiries? It
is Krsna alone. Gradually our faith will develop and take us to the one
who can clear all our doubts. We may have doubts upon doubts. One
doubt may go and thousands of doubts may come, but guru is one who
can clear all our doubts, bhidyate hrdaya-granthis chidyante
sarvasamsayah (S.B. 1.2.21). Who can do away with all the suspicions
in our mind; it is He who is full. In this way we must progress. The
birth of our faith may be in intellectualism, but its goal is
transcendental. The birth of our search and its destination will come to
meet together. The birth of faith is from the potency of Krsna, and
after moving through the whole of the infinite it will come again to the
potency where we will take our eternal position.
Krsna consciousness means the infinite in the finite: the affectionate
connection of the finite with the infinite helps him to live in infinity.
The finite backed by the infinite may become infinitely resourceful.
Our Guru Maharaja gave the example that if a poor girl marries a
prince, although she may have nothing, by her affectionate
relationship with the prince, she turns into a princess. So one who has
nothing, only a friendly relationship, gets command over everything.
This is the nature of Krsna consciousness.
One's resources may increase in that way. Intrinsically, a jiva soul is
insignificant; it is an infinitesimal point of a point of a point, but by
coming in affectionate connection with the Absolute, he gets the
facility of all the advantages of a life with the Absolute. Then he or
she is in possession of the whole. We cannot really ascertain anyone's
potency or power without considering his relationship with others.
Israel is a small country; Russia could conquer it in five minutes, but -
America is there. So relationships, connections, and friends must be
taken into consideration when understanding the power of a thing.
There is a fable that shows how a small bird was able to disturb and
even control the whole ocean. Once, a small bird laid her eggs by the
ocean's shore, but the ocean carried the eggs away. When the ocean
stole her eggs, the bird became angry and asked for them back, but the
ocean would not return them. The bird went to her master, that bird
went to his master, and in this way they finally went to Garuda, the
master of all birds. Garuda is the servant bird-carrier of Visnu. And
Garuda came to the aid of that small bird. He threatened the ocean, "If
you don't return this little bird's eggs immediately, I shall drink you to
the last drop." The ocean had to submit. In this way the unlimited
ocean was conquered by a small bird. As the moral of this story,
Pandit Visnu Sharma gives this conclusion: When examining a
person, we must consider his friends and the friends of his friends.
Without such considerations, we should not try to estimate the power
of a particular thing." Because of friendly association, the ocean was
conquered. In the same way, by making friendship with the infinite,
one can conquer the infinite.