intro/ what is real

[Lozion]

"silence is agreement."

We have that as a saying. "Hiljentyminen on myöntymisen merkki" which translates roughly "To be silent is a sign of consent". So basically the same as "silence is agreement". Some of us use that phrase in all kinds of things that would be agreed upon. Usually it is used more sarcastically than taken literally.

Yeah we have that in french also: "Qui ne dit mot consent". Its probably found in all major languages, a type of golden rule...

[evan]

As a contractor, we often have change orders in the scope of a project. The customer is called in and asked to visualize why the offending beam, wall or pipe(as an example) have to go. AS we stand there ,during the indecision of the home owner , it often gets to the point where we set the sawzall against the structure and say " speak now or forever hold your peace"
I heard this often from my "greatest generation " grandfathers and find myself using the phrase.
It comes to mind that humanity needs to take action , speak, stand or sawzall away.

If we" hold our( collective) peace", aren't we consenting to the status qou that is the thinly disguised slavery that we accept as "peace"?
By refraining form the action of words , thereby leaving the part of the structure that is in the way of opening up the new space ?
And by a majority speaking we create the awareness , that opens the space, that creates the new definition of the peace.. perhaps one that we can than " hold"

[infinity]

Welcome evan.

Thanks for sharing a bit of your background. If you've been lurking long enough you would know that I can relate to a lot of your history.

Could you share a bit on what happened that helped you get "out of the box"? Was there an event that happened in your life? Something someone said that stuck with you, or something else?

[evan]

Yes Mr Infinity, I always understood a bit more of your posts along with picking up on the similar background. And perhaps somewhat of the same type of mindset.

Silence is slavery and stagnation, so I will share
Short version

Raised in the fundamental way it was " heaven or hell, you are either saved by the blood of Jesus or doomed , neither faith or works saves alone but the two combined and begun with repenting and confessing to god and the church...
I was quite curious as a kid (tween) and ate up the KJV , to the point of the elders in the family would comment, " he has a grasp of the scripture" I think they felt I was destined for the pulpit, and at times I did too. It always amazed me the stories of spirit and angelic encounters, as a kid I felt energy and such around me along with some auras and such. I remember asking when young. "why don't the angels visit anymore"? " gods important work was then , and ask Jesus to forgive your load of sin" or something like that. My other thought as a kid , How can god just throw away all those people who aren't Christian at all?

I got a bit older and sowed some oats, feeling the guilt and fear that had been laid on thickly as a kid. I was enjoying myself, though scared to pass as hell would surely await. All the while thinking someday I would repent. And that some of it didn't sit well.

One night as a close friend drown next to me, the angel roused me from the hypothermia calling my name several times and " its not your time, wake up, swim,, now put your feet down.

This began the real questions. that echoed from my childhood .. there was more spirit around , and did my friend burn in the Christian hell?
then he talked to me a month or so later...

From here the path winds. spirit giving the prods, lessons and synchronicities that lead to growth

I feel that most organizations thrives in adding people to their agendas. Be it the above church , the gov, a new age group, etc.

Today I will say that I believe that much of what is discussed here is likely as a replacement for the understandings of the workings of our history and sciences.( and I only understand a reasonable majority of a fraction of the material here and on AQ )

In the end I have moved far from the harsh creator version of divine, to a creative spirit fractured into infinite cells experiencing life and ultimately most of which is destined to return to the source . That our earth is a larger chunk of divine than we as individuals certainly. That we come into alignment with spirit and grow most by seeing each other as cells of divine ,( true rapport) many of us as bad children with lots to learn in the cycles of karma and reincarnation.
( this is as best as I can describe in a short text format)

I get that this may differ from many views, but I feel that it still fits from the greater likely truths found on this fora

[infinity]

Thanks for sharing that evan.

I think we all can relate with the fear-based control that you mention. I for one know of the reality of that - especially on the religious stuff.

I would like to ask if you could relate to any of the following, or perhaps not - but if so, if there's anything like this that you would like to explore further?

I feel that despite the negative experiences I've had with religion, that I was fortunate enough to also interact with the rare individuals and processes where the religious control played no factor and there was accountability, mentorship, and equipping on what we would call here "psychic abilities". Of course, some of it was not taught in a correct way due to the christian theological skew on it - but some of that was easily corrected with a more realistic worldview.

With over 30'000 denominations in christianity alone, its actually rare to meet even a current christian (nevermind ex-christian) that knows what I'm about to talk about now. And it is stuff that's quite natural for anyone (just practiced more than the average person), but can be very useful. For instance, I find it effortless to sense someone else's emotions that are in physical proximity to me. When such emotions are negative in any way (e.g. sad or angry), it sparks my curiosity and I automatically delve into the reason for this with my attention. Due to having had some practice in it, I find that I would be able to tell exactly what was going on inside that person and why. Sometimes I could tell them what to do about it, if it was appropriate and if they wanted to know - other times I simply didn't have the wisdom and would simply stay silent. This is useful when communicating with someone, because you're aware of their feelings and could pierce the driving forces behind it. But for some people its truly a supernatural experience for a complete stranger to tell them something big that's bothering them - that no one knows about - and encourage them in how to move forward.

I'm not sure if any of this is making sense?

What I'm trying to get at, is to eat the meat and spit out the bones. We have to make the most of what we learn. In the past, and in the present. If you have picked up something useful in your journey so far - don't be afraid to use it and grow it in your journey forward. The world needs every bit of contribution we can make in rapport

[infinity]

Another comment I wanted to make is that karma is a very debatable concept. The word doesn't mean justice or fairness but rather more like punishment - that a Hindu person born in a lower class or suffering in life deserves it.

Once I did believe in karma very much, but I don't anymore. I do believe in consequences to our actions - but not that the universe is out to get us for bad stuff that we did. I found this liberating - because I can focus on where I want to go instead of being afraid of making mistakes or messing up. As long as I'm willing to take responsibility for my mistakes and honor other life - I'll be fine.

We still know very little about the "laws of the universe". But I haven't really found evidence in near-death experiences regarding the concept of karma. Only the concept that there are consequences to our actions.

What do you make of it?

[evan]

Not sure what your asking in the first part, Infinity...

I am a "student " of spiritual counseling. And have found that through my intuitiveness some of the experiences you refer to, With a different mindset on when to speak . I aspire to listen while occasionally mentioning a similar experience and how I came to learn some positive outcomes or mindsets that moved me forward, with the hope that they draw their own conclusions and learn perhaps bits of awareness of routes through their blockages (using metaphor sometimes works). I find that giving people the answers without them working them out on their own , hooks me with the energy of the situation, makes me kind of own it if you will. ( I get dragged down)
This plays out in how I don't really buy the angel /alien saving us, as suggestion and subtle assistance allows us to grow and saving us just buys more stuck people never growing. I don't think any advanced whatever wants to coddle someone's issues.( assist yes) I aspire not to either(something I work on) I have more to learn, some may find a different way to help a neighbor.

As far as Karma I get your point. I think of it as we are responsible to ourselves for what we put out there.. Not that the universe/spirit/ mad god has a problem with us . More that if were snotty /aloof we need situations in life to learn humility. Maybe that we as the spirit have a problem with what we did more. Then we find roles in the next life, or farther out in the current , that gives ourselves a chance to fix some of it. I think this is a bit like daniels second(?) to last paper. He writes of the choices one experiences once they have cooled of after a bit, and while not a medium as such, nonetheless I feel people who have died suddenly for a bit more present or nearby. For a month or so.... So the premise of this makes sense..

[daniel]

Karma is just the biological version of Newton's laws: for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.

But since life is split with a body in space and a soul in time, the "equal and opposite" tends to push the other aspect; indulgence in the material (body/space) has consequences for the cosmic (soul/time). And vice-versa. Since the soul is nonlocal to the body, the soul is connected to several bodies, distributed across clock time--incarnations, for a "soul purpose." So when the soul is doing it's "equal and opposite reaction" thing, it tends to influence the bodies of those other incarnations, past and future. Since the past has already had its consciousness present, the consequence tends to be towards the future incarnations, which are still kind of "templates" your consciousness is planning to inhabit at a later clock time.

The reciprocal relation between things can be quite revealing!

[infinity]

So when the soul is doing it's "equal and opposite reaction" thing, it tends to influence the bodies of those other incarnations, past and future. Since the past has already had its consciousness present, the consequence tends to be towards the future incarnations, which are still kind of "templates" your consciousness is planning to inhabit at a later clock time.

Hmm. I'm gonna have to chew on that. Very intriguing perspective I have to admit I keep underestimating the ability of the RS2 framework as a Theory of Everything. I'd like to talk more about what you just shared after I chew on this a bit. I get the feeling there's a lot more to this than the words I'm reading here - as if it contains more layers of meaning that I yet need to pierce. Almost like a fractal - the basic pattern is plain, but its implications are almost magical.

suggestion and subtle assistance allows us to grow

Very wise words From what you've shared, that is a really awesome way to help people. As I'm sure you've seen already hehe. One of my biggest challenges is subtlety - and I'm learning a lot in that area. I'll take to heart what you have shared, it is a good reminder for me. Thanks for sharing that.

I have more to learn, some may find a different way to help a neighbor.

I can say from experience that whatever your desire is in any area of life - if it is genuine and consistent - you will be presented with the means to get it. Whether it is to provide encouragement and help to others' personal growth via what is considered 'paranormal' means, or whether it is to learn the skill to fix a technical problem with a machine. There was a time in my life when I was consumed with desire to help others and inspire them regarding what we might call "spiritual" matters. This has brought about circumstances and situations from which I could learn things that a few years ago I haven't thought possible.

The same strong desire for truth, for realness, and to get beyond falsity, has brought me through many paradigm shifts - all of them painful. And it has also brought me here and to AQ. And it is still painful for me as I have to keep changing and learning - like you described, learning on our own, but with help, not with force though - and I have such a great desire for the community here to find a way to make these things more accessible to people.

I have no doubt there are millions of people that are so hungry for stuff like the --daniel papers and lonebear's / bruce's RS2 guides. But how to make it more accessible? Only those that truly seek disillusionment will be willing to go through it. It is a traumatizing process. Whether in shattering old worldviews or whether it is in bringing up the pain of the past of being subjected to sociological controls like religion. Those are examples of "entry" barriers are what we as a community can work on. Entry barriers to the knowledge of the 'Matrix' so to speak.

[evan]

It is accessible. Many People have no apparent drive or work ethic in their hunt for the truths.
It seems like to much work to many, or mumbo jumbo, or the mindset of things are okay at the status quo I'm/were at, or I will hide my head in the sand or I would like that bud light in the bottle please..etc.
Fact is ( looking in the mirror) I've tried all these excuses in the past, until I couldn't hide from myself any longer.
Maybe humanity will suddenly get to a point where its time to work.
Or perhaps the hundredth monkey effect, will allow a jump in awareness.
Or growth events in their personal lives, in a collective trauma , or macro in a earth growth event or such could make the difference.
Lately I feel that when I work on my own reality, focusing on growth while being in rapport with others, along with dropping the energy I was putting into what I suspected the government was planning next. Well it seems to give me a jump.
A teacher once said, in the airplane they direct us to put on our masks, if the pressure fails, prior to helping another. We need to focus on us to give us a chance of the abilities to help others.